Jesus fucking a Christ, Doc, while you have all my respect as some of the most awesome people in our little community and whatnot, I truly feel like I am lucky for not having facepalmed as hard as I feeled I needed to reading your jibber jabber; for all I know I might've fractured my skull. And yes, Majeh, I am reviving your conversation, for I missed it. Not only that, I am, despite of the love I have for you as a person, speak to you in all boldness possible, Doc.
First of all, what Majeh said is not naive, not at the slighest; while crude, sad and a little deppressing, he was speaking nothing but mere truths. People do not change, and our world only as good as we make it; as it happens, people ain't good. People are, all in all, selfish creatures, which is something we have even proven by a thousand of tests... well not a thousand, but you got my point.
You see, while unfortunate, our society always follows a certain pattern, all thanks to the evil nature of mankind:
1) Evil, selfish men rise to power through deception and lies
2) These evil men want more power and start wars
3) Everything gets fucked up
4) Everything tends to start more or less again
6) Some peaceful times go by with good presidents and whatnot
7) We go back to point 1.
People also seriously do not change, not unless they get like freaking brain tumors or something. I agree, people develop: but you see, people are only as good as their deeds. As Majeh said, be a man a murderer, he will forever be tagged as evil by the society. When everyone thinks you are evil, it ain't easy to become good again; infact, it is impossible. Even if you may more or less develop for the better deep inside what a member of religious folk such as yourself may call a soul, the society, that has tagged the said person as evil, will only pull him back and keep him to the status given. In the end, all change people really do have is negative. Hell, I even know a person with, well, more or less pedophilic urges time to time - not that he has ever actually gone around touching children, but there just is a certain incident that happaned far back in his past that left him more or less confused. Now, just think he told everyone of these thoughts that sometimes go through his head; people won't feel as comfortable around him no-more, not your average fellow at least. Whilst the concept of change in humen is more or less a little abstract, all in all, people never really change that much, not for the better at least.
Anyhow, that was a big ass chunk of useless talky walky. As my last comment directed especially to Doc, never bring your god up in a serious conversation; if religion can be taken as anything by really critical minds, it can not be taken as serious. As any bit of really critical thinking on the subject dissmisses the whole existance of deities, it should not be brought up in critical conversations.
Anyhow though, yeah, happy new years evribodi!